Curse

StormDragonZ · Dec 08, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

The Dervish Update... you know, I'm more concerned over how enemies will be affected.

I mean, look at what happened to "We Shall Return!".

Now that I think about it, I'm probably the only person to actually be concerned about it.

End · Dec 08, 2010, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

The Dervish Update... you know, I'm more concerned over how enemies will be affected.

I mean, look at what happened to "We Shall Return!".

Now that I think about it, I'm probably the only person to actually be concerned about it.

PvE isn't all that hard to begin with. I would love to see better buffed up enimies to roflstomp.

Chop it Off · Dec 08, 2010, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Most players would happily trade their costume brawl face lift, 2 hours of halloween quests for an entire game's worth of enjoyable play time on the dervish.

Most? doubtful

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Realistically "most" players couldn't give a damn about the dervish. It's one class out of ten.

Quoted for truth.

FengShuiDove · Dec 08, 2010, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Very much okay with some harder enemies. "We Shall Return" is indeed annoying in Joko's Domain and some other spots in HM, but that's just as much due to the nature of the skill. Several skills make mobs harder to kill, but they're not necessarily overpowered on enemy AI, they're just troll skills. Think of Lightning Reflexes with Call to the Torment. Fffffuuu.

Plus, Dervs? The Avatars are only cappable in one place each, and no foes use them regularly. It'd be a neat challenge to have them be extremely hard caps. After all, you're trying to kill an Avatar of a god to steal their ability. Some skills might make the game more difficult, but it's very unlikely that it will break anything.

I also wish they'd push the 7 heroes live and then give us an "icing" update that handles formations, AI, whatever it is that's the extra thing. But if I wasn't a GWG lurker and so informed, I'd want the update to work and be overwhelmingly cool. So for the majority of the population, I understand wanting to push out something really cool instead of giving it in installments.

ogre_jd · Dec 08, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Plus, Dervs? The Avatars are only cappable in one place each, and no foes use them regularly. It'd be a neat challenge to have them be extremely hard caps. After all, you're trying to kill an Avatar of a god to steal their ability. Some skills might make the game more difficult, but it's very unlikely that it will break anything.

They already are among the hardest to cap in the game, for most players. Maybe a few skills that only show up in late missions (having a helluva time getting Panic since Moles Quibus only seems to want to spawn in the bowl with the portals and Armageddon Lords in Hell's Precipice) or in the Realm of Torment are harder, but not by much.

Personally, I still don't see why Dervishes need an update. Earth and Wind could use a bit of buffage, sure, but Mysticism is excellent (both its intrinsic effect and the skills in it) and Scythe Mastery's great. So what if Assassins get more crits and Warriors get a bit more armor penetration? No big deal. Doesn't make Dervishes in any way not worth playing. (personally, the only reason I don't like Dervishes is having to stop to cast Enchantments, so everything else reaches the spawn before I do)

Far more important would be to buff Tactics so that it's useful for Warriors, but keeping them from being overpowered for Paragons.

dancing gnome · Dec 08, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmers Are Bad

↑Not only that, the dervish is also an expansion class and as such has a smaller overall player base.

Everyone and their pet hamster has a ritualist after the rit buff. That class rebalance had a huge impact on the game (the same goes for mesmers).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Personally, I still don't see why Dervishes need an update. Earth and Wind could use a bit of buffage, sure, but Mysticism is excellent (both its intrinsic effect and the skills in it) and Scythe Mastery's great. So what if Assassins get more crits and Warriors get a bit more armor penetration? No big deal. Doesn't make Dervishes in any way not worth playing. (personally, the only reason I don't like Dervishes is having to stop to cast Enchantments, so everything else reaches the spawn before I do)

The most significant thing about the ritualist update was reducing cast time for spirits for reasons similar to dervishes needing to constantly keep up enchantments. The stop start gameplay of the dervish is why I don't play them (and if you look at the popular builds, the stop start enchantment style play the class was designed around isn't very popular and thus not used for the same reason you pointed out - that's why the rebalance is needed, the class never played well using it's own mechanics). I suspect the new mechanic the derv will get will replace the garbage enchantment style play in favour of a more fluid and dynamic combat presence like the class should have always had. Then again there's a good chance I'm expecting too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Far more important would be to buff Tactics so that it's useful for Warriors, but keeping them from being overpowered for Paragons.

The Live Team already had a look at tactics for the warrior and did some unsuccessful buffs to them. I don't think they will be willing to buff the skills to a level where players will use them. Paragons need their own class rebalance instead of leaching sub par warrior skills.

This thread is about hero parties and embark beach... so we got way off topic with dervish balance updates.

FengShuiDove · Dec 08, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Personally, I still don't see why Dervishes need an update. Earth and Wind could use a bit of buffage, sure, but Mysticism is excellent (both its intrinsic effect and the skills in it) and Scythe Mastery's great. So what if Assassins get more crits and Warriors get a bit more armor penetration? No big deal. Doesn't make Dervishes in any way not worth playing. (personally, the only reason I don't like Dervishes is having to stop to cast Enchantments, so everything else reaches the spawn before I do)

I honestly can't believe this. Mysticism is some of the worst energy management in the game, and the health gain is so inconsistent and insignificant it might as well not be there. Why do you think Dervs have to rely on an elite like Zealous Vow to have a build with maintainable DPS? Whereas Assassins can spec into Crit Strikes and put in Critical Eye if necessary for unlimited spam of good skills. Warriors have adrenaline of course, and Rangers have Expertise, which is amazing.

Scythe Mastery is decent because of a few skills. You have the standard Eremite's/Mystic combo, and a handful of other worthwhile skills that are basically the only functional attacks. Yeah, Warriors and Sins also have some worthless skills, but they have far more functional combos and can use multiple weapons to great effect.

Earth and Wind definitely need buffed as well. Leaving no highly effective attributes. Dervs are just underpowered compared to their peers.

People can argue all day that Dervs are great and don't need a buff, but why do you think there's major effort going into one? Because players complained? And why did players complain? Dervs are underwhelming. The opinion of a few Dervish enthusiasts on Guru doesn't change the feeling of the vast majority of the playerbase or the reason the metagame in both PvP and PvE is shaped without Dervs.

skullmount4 · Dec 08, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Realistically "most" players couldn't give a damn about the dervish. It's one class out of ten.

Same thing could be said about the need to work on the Costume Brawl. Us PvE only people don't need PvP crap worked on, and like someone said it was already fine (never used it so I can't really comment on it). On the flip side, so could the GW:B content (which I like), said for the PvP only people. They can't appease everyone, so they're always going to upset one group or another. The people with Derv mains (myself included) want the changes to come out, over other things, but the Devs know best, so its done when they say its done.
Also, hence the need for them to revamp the dervish class, cause then maybe "most" players will like what they do (hopefully).